Page 1 of 12 
 
Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton 
May 21, 1993 
Cassette 7, Side 1 
 
 
Barbara Wright  00:03 
Testing, 1-2-3, testing. This is May 21, Friday, 1993. We're in the home of Olive Carlton once 
again. And this is Barbara Wright. Finishing off the interview, very last one here, just clearing up 
some loose ends. First thing that I need are-- get rid of this-- correct spell-- oh, there I go, thank 
you-- correct spelling for Bosworth, England? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:34 
B-O-S-W-O-R-T-H. 
 
Barbara Wright  00:36 
Okay. Upper Heyford? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:41 
U-P-P-E-R, H-E-Y-F-O-R-D. 
 
Barbara Wright  00:45 
Okay, and is that all one word? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:48 
Two words. 
 
Barbara Wright  00:49 
Okay. Upper is the first one? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:51 
First word. 
 
Barbara Wright  00:53 
Molesworth. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  00:53 
M-O-L-S-W-O-R-T-H.  
 
Page 2 of 12 
 
Barbara Wright  01:00 
Okay. And how do you spell Colleen, Texas? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  01:05 
Killeen. 
 
Barbara Wright  01:06 
Okay. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  01:07 
K-I-L-L-E-E-N.  
 
Barbara Wright  01:08 
Perfect, great. All right, how would you like to be remembered? Easy question to start off the 
interview. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  01:21 
Oh my word. Oh my dear. How would I like to be remembered? As a happy person, a helpful 
person, someone that you can come to, to talk to. As I have said. I did, I did [inaudible]. I think 
those would be the most important, I don't know. Does that sound selfish or what? 
 
Barbara Wright  02:09 
No, I think that's a very generous way to be remembered. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  02:20 
Beats me. You'd have to think on that one. I think that would be the main thing that... because I 
do-- I mean, I have listened to people. They're in problem-- have problems. They've talked to me, 
and I've listened and... Yeah, that's what people need, just somebody to talk to, talk their troubles 
out, when, in the end, they figured it all out by themselves. Helpful? I said that. I think that's it. 
 
Barbara Wright  02:58 
Okay. What do you consider your greatest achievement? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:10 
Raising a family, [?hopeful?]. Having a good marriage. Trying to live a good life. I've been very 
fortunate. And I think that's it. 
 
Barbara Wright  03:38 
Define for me, good life. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:42 
These are hard questions now. 
 
Barbara Wright  03:43 
I saved the best for last. 
 
Page 3 of 12 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  03:44 
Oh, my. What's having a good life? Well, maybe all started way back when I was just a child. I 
had good parents, brought me up well, gave me a lot of good things, something that has lasted all 
my life, I think. Liking everybody, love to meet people. I lost my train of thought. What was it? 
Having a good life. 
 
Barbara Wright  04:39 
Meeting lots of people. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  04:44 
Being able to help people, then getting married, being very fortunate, taking a-- having a good 
husband, having a good life together. I think they're wonderful, children, three of them. And all 
the things I've been able to do that seemingly have been very exciting, because from what people 
seem to think, and I just enjoyed doing it all. I wouldn't change a thing, even the bad times. You 
have to have bad times to appreciate good times. And then being very fortunate to have three 
good children, and now we got wonderful-- six beautiful grandchildren. 
 
Barbara Wright  05:42 
You mentioned a good marriage. Why has Chuck been a good spouse? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  05:46 
Well, we've learned to live together. It was hard at first, but we managed. We didn't have much 
to live on when we first got married and we had our first child, David, and then we were parted. 
While he went over to England, and I joined him over there. We did a lot of traveling. I enjoyed 
it. It was hard, I guess, at the time, but I only remember the good things, I think, although I know 
there were uncomfortable times, rough times, but I try to remember the good times [inaudible]. 
We were in England and in different parts of the state, and then in Germany, and then back 
home. And he was just a wonderful, thoughtful husband, and we've managed to-- we give and 
take and-- sometimes a lot more take than give. But, yeah, he's good. That answer it? I don't-- 
 
Barbara Wright  07:06 
Oh, absolutely. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:07 
I just went rambling on there.  
 
Barbara Wright  07:09 
Yep. Okay, here's another good one. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:18 
Oh dear. 
 
Barbara Wright  07:18 
[Laughs] What's your definition of the meaning of life? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  07:28 
Page 4 of 12 
 
You should give these answers-- questions and then give us a day or let us think on our words 
[laughs]. What's a good life? 
 
Barbara Wright  07:38 
For instance, because the reason why I asked that is that a writer, Robert Fulghum, did a book, 
and it's a kind of a compilation of essays. It's Everything I Needed to Learn, I Learned in 
Kindergarten, that author, and one of his essays, it may not have been in that book, but one of 
them is that one of the questions, 'cause you know, usually there's a situation where somebody 
will go, Does anyone have any questions? And this guy is one of these really unique people, and 
so he'll always go, What's the meaning of life? And he kind of, in his essay, was about the 
different answers that he received. One was from a very knowledgeable German, and he-- well, 
Jewish-German. And he survived concentration camps as little boy, and he was later in Greece. 
And he had some little mirror. And he said mirror-- life was like this mirror, you can reflect 
whatever you want, you know, light or whatever. And he'd gotten this piece of mirror from one 
of the American soldiers, and I guess it just gave him a lot of hope and joy. So anyway, it's kind 
of a different answer. So for instance, if I were to answer that, I'd answer that the definition of 
life is to learn certain important life lessons, and once we learn those lessons, or if we refuse to 
learn anything new in our life, then we die, and to be the best person we are capable of being in 
that life. So... 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:13 
Well in that line, I guess I would have to say, the number of times that I've been given life again, 
that there must be a reason that the good Lord wanted me to stay alive. The first would be when I 
was in London and we had the bomb come down right next to where we were, in a shelter in the 
basement, and I came out of it alive, but people had-- around-- when we came out, around of us-- 
around us was disaster, and people are being killed, but we came out alive. And after I thought 
about that later on, when I was saying, Well, it must be-- the good Lord must want me to still 
live, for some reason. The next one that is outstanding, and... Well, I could tell you, because 
there's been so much talk about it. When our second child was born, something happened. We 
almost lost him, he turned black in the hospitals there, and because we had to be in English 
hospitals, the Americans didn't have any place at the time, so the English hospitals let us go in 
there for deliveries of children, and at the end of the bed, your baby was put in little kind of 
baskets. Well, the slits were very-- they were quite wide. They weren't like we normally have. 
And somehow or other, he got in between the slots and twisted his neck, and couldn't get out. 
And I just happened to glance over at him, and I said-- he was turning blue, you know, black-- a 
funny color anyway. And I screamed, so they came rushing in, and they were able just to twist 
him around and get him, and they brought him back to life. Then with that-- and I heard that my 
grandmother was going to leave us too. She was in the hospital, and I don't know what it was, 
and they didn't at the time know what it was, but about a day later, I had something go wrong 
with me. I lost all the fluids in my body, all over, and they had to rush me to emergency, and I 
died for five minutes, and I did see beautiful place. I just didn't want to come back, and I was 
gone. And my grandmother had died. I hadn't heard that, but-- yes, I did. I'd heard that she died, 
and I heard her voice, and it was this image. I saw the image, no facial resemblance at all, just a-- 
just like... A shadow, I guess it would be. And she says, Olive, go back. George wants you. But 
we-- we had just named him, and, You're not needed. Go home. And I guess that's when I started 
coming back. So after that, I thought, Well, I'm still not-- the good Lord still doesn't want me. So 
Page 5 of 12 
 
I think, like you said about that gentleman, you live a better life, and you try to do better. And 
that's what I was always being-- a philosophy after that, try to help people, be as good as you 
can. You're not perfect. I mean, I'm not perfect by any means, but you do the best you can. 
 
Barbara Wright  09:13 
When you-- with this near-death experience-- versus there's a lot of talk of a dark tunnel. Was 
that the situation, or? Describe it for me if you can. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  09:13 
No, no. Not that I can remember, I don't know. But those are things that-- now this was, you say, 
in '51, so I don't want to say too much, because I don't want to exaggerate. Sometimes I put a 
little bit too much in it, but those are the things that stand out in the memory. 
 
Barbara Wright  10:26 
Did-- were-- did you see yourself floating up out of your body at all? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  10:32 
Nope. 
 
Barbara Wright  10:35 
Interesting. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  10:37 
I did see me laying on the table though. Yeah, and I saw people around me, but I couldn't 
distinguish anybody.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  10:45 
I can't, you know, they've made so much of this that I don't really like this-- I don't like the 
commercial part of it at all. To me, it was precious and very sacred to me. It was just a beautiful-
- at peace with everybody and everything, and it was a beautiful light that was shining, and it was 
just peaceful. I just don't know how to explain anymore. And then this voice when I-- I heard my 
grandmother. 
 
Barbara Wright  11:31 
Okay. Could you hear anything or guess what they're saying? 
 
Barbara Wright  11:31 
That's really interesting. Wow. Where do you go after that? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  12:17 
Well, I don't-- I mean, that's how I feel. Of life, there must been a reason for me to be sent back 
twice. Well, not-- I mean once that way, but then to be safe, because that building could have 
easily fell on us, we'd have been buried alive. We didn't. 
 
Barbara Wright  15:39 
Page 6 of 12 
 
You mentioned how when your husband came up to Seattle, you were left with responsibility of 
running the roller rink. How did you feel about such a heavy responsibility when he-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  15:50 
I didn't like it a bit [laughs]-- 
 
Barbara Wright  15:51 
Were you resentful-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  15:53 
But had to be done. No, no, it's what he wanted. It was a family thing. I didn't like it, but that was 
nothing to do with it. 
 
Barbara Wright  16:05 
How was the stress level at that time, running such a big operation?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  16:08 
Oh, it was very-- very big.  
 
Barbara Wright  16:10 
How did the stress kind of-- what was... 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  16:14 
Didn't bother me until I got up here. Because I knew it had to be done, and if you got something 
to do, you'd do it. I did have a son that was very helpful. I had a lot of friends too, in Killeen, in 
the civilian population, because I'd been quite well-known up there. 
 
Barbara Wright  16:34 
Did you feel at all like a failure when you had to close it and sell it? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  16:42 
No, I was thankful. I was very thankful. I didn't want to leave there, but I was thankful to get rid 
of it. 
 
Barbara Wright  16:52 
You mentioned also too that in the military, sometimes the women are the ones that raise the 
children. Do you feel that that was kind of your responsibility, that, you know, most of the child-
rearing was on your shoulders? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  17:08 
Mm-hmm, yeah, I understood that. I think being in the service myself had a lot to do with that, 
because I knew what he had to go through, and I'll know what he was expected to do. So that 
never bothered me at all. 
 
Barbara Wright  17:22 
Page 7 of 12 
 
Do you feel that the military now should be a little bit more family-conscientious? And, you 
know, build in either more programs or change regulations that, like I said, make it more family-
friendly. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  17:42 
Well, I think they do already. That was one thing that I-- that we always were, big family. And as 
far as I know where that's concerned, I think they get looked after very well. 
 
Barbara Wright  17:55 
Okay, 'cause you mention that it's kind of like a one big family, so it's more as opposed to it 
coming from the top down, it's more of a-- sort of, the people within the community, the people 
that live on base or whatever, is more family, as opposed to-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  18:13 
Mm-hmm. 
 
Barbara Wright  18:13 
Okay, but then you don't feel that the military, then should put in any sort of, you know-- for 
instance, like my brother was in the Air Force, and he'd have to be on alert for, you know, three 
weeks on end.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  18:18 
Oh, yeah. 
 
Barbara Wright  18:18 
So do you feel then that maybe something like that should be changed? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  18:28 
No. No, that's what they're in there for. It's what you sign up for, and if you go to country-- if 
they're not trained, they're not going to be any good if there's a war breaks out or any troubles, 
you've got to have that training. You've got to know what to do. Well, yeah, if you don't want to 
do that, then you don't have to go into the service, especially now, because it's all volunteer. So if 
you sign your name up, then yeah, that's up to you. Do what you're forced to do [laughs]. Oh, 
yeah, I'm very strict where that's coming from. You see, that's my military training too, coming 
through. 
 
Barbara Wright  19:14 
What was Chuck's role in raising the children, and how much of a part did he play? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  19:20 
Oh, when he was home, he punished them. Tell him-- he was real good father. But some-- when 
we were in the service, he wasn't home very much. And then, for a guy, when he did get home 
about 30 minutes later, the phone would ring, he was needed because he was the first sergeant, so 
he was always on the alert. He gave the children lots of things, did lots of things with them. 
[?Thought?] he could, but it was a lot different what it is nowadays. I can't tell you that, because 
I'm not around them, so I don't know. 
Page 8 of 12 
 
 
Barbara Wright  20:01 
Um, one of the things I thought was interesting, even when you said it, but then later on, in our 
class, we were sort of talking about it. We have 12 people in this women's class, and three of 
them have mentioned that their women were told at an early age that they were infertile and then 
later on, had children. So if, you know, if you feel comfortable, what-- did they tell you why 
when you were younger, you couldn't have children? What made them think that? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  20:30 
Just, I guess something they figured I didn't have. I was-- they I don't remember anything about 
what they decided on, but when they examined me... I don't remember if it was American, Irish, 
or just the British. I can't remember. I think it was the British doctor. Well, the doctor that, you 
know, Mother had, because I had problems with my ministrating. I'd go maybe four or five 
months without it, and then when I did have it, I really had it bad. And I-- I'm sure that's who it 
was that told Mother that he didn't think I could carry one. So that's all I know. But he didn't 
know everything. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:22 
And he never sat down and told you this, he just told your mother and your mother told you? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:35 
No, no. He just told-- yeah. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:36 
Interesting. How old were you when this happened? When you were told? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:39 
When I started ministrating. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:42 
That was 12? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:43 
I was 12, I guess. 11 or 12, I don't remember. I know it scared me to death [laughs]. 
 
Barbara Wright  21:50 
That's right, because you weren't told.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  21:52 
No, oh no. And I never was told after that, either. And the children never-- like they do now. 
That was really taboo. 
 
Barbara Wright  22:11 
When you talked this over with Chuck, what was his reaction about it? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:17 
Page 9 of 12 
 
It never seemed to bother him. Said, Well, because the point, we'd always adopt. 
 
Barbara Wright  22:24 
What was your reaction to-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  22:28 
Didn't bother me. I never-- I don't ever remember worrying about that much of anything in those 
days. I know I used to upset Chuck because I didn't worry about some things, but I never did. I-- 
life was what you made it. And why worry? Worry doesn't help you. And now I worry all the 
time. I'm making up for it. The least little thing, I'm worried to death. But in those days, I always 
used to say, Why worry? It doesn't get you anywhere. In fact, it makes it worse. So why worry? 
And I never did. And I know my mother used to be upset with me, because she worried all the 
time. 
 
Barbara Wright  23:14 
You didn't have to worry. She worries for you. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  23:15 
That's it. That's likely what it was, because I saw how she worried over silly things. We always 
said she made mountains out of molehills, which was true. So maybe that's where I got it from. I 
mean, [?it's all there?]. 
 
Barbara Wright  23:37 
Also too, the last time we left off in your life history was 1983 and Chuck retired. So what 
happened after that? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  23:45 
Well, we bought the roller rink. 
 
Barbara Wright  23:49 
So you bought one here in Seattle? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  23:51 
No. And then he got sick, and he had a job waiting for him up here, supposedly, with Boeing. 
 
Barbara Wright  23:59 
Okay, oh. Anyway, we've gone through that. And so it's 1983 and he's retired. Okay, so, and 
after that, so he retired from Metro. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  24:09 
Oh, that was it. Oh, I'm-- '83 we were up here. We left Killeen, Te-- oh, I'm way out base here. 
He retired from the Army in '63. And then '68 we came up here to Washington, and that was in 
July-- uh, yeah, July. 
 
Barbara Wright  24:21 
Okay, sorry, and we went through all that.  
Page 10 of 12 
 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  24:21 
Yeah. 
 
Barbara Wright  24:25 
And then-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  24:29 
June, it was. 
 
Barbara Wright  24:35 
Okay, yeah, and we had gone through all the graduations, and then we had gone to your father's 
death, and then your husband's retirement from Metro.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  24:49 
Well, he retired in '83 from Metro. And what we've done since then? 
 
Barbara Wright  24:57 
Any sort of major event. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  25:01 
I think we had more before that. I can't think of anything. 
 
Barbara Wright  25:10 
So what do-- now that you two have all this free time together, what do you do? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  25:14 
Well, that-- he has been busier than like normal, but up until a few months ago, wasn't too good. 
And as I said, when I turned 65, everything seemed to fall apart. That's when they found out I 
was a diabetes, and then everything seemed to go. Had surgery, but we're here. We're still having 
a good time.  
 
Barbara Wright  25:48 
Yeah, one of the things that I noticed is that it seems like your family's always over here. You 
know, when you have like your grandchildren's bikes?  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  25:56 
You noticed, didn't you? Yeah, well, we're ones our family didn't want to leave us, I guess. 
David is the furthest away from us. He's in Maple Valley. So it takes you-- with the traffic 
nowadays, takes you 30-45 minutes to get to his place. Judy, she lives about 15-20 minutes from 
here, and George, he just lives down 99, which is about 10 minutes. So we have them around 
here. And the-- when they don't have school, then Grandma and Grandpa has them, especially 
with the two boys, because George is by himself so we help out as best we can. 
 
Barbara Wright  25:56 
Also too, I noticed that you have a mobile home in the driveway. Do you travel around any or? 
Page 11 of 12 
 
 
Barbara Wright  25:59 
Where have you-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  26:00 
'Cause Chuck's not too good.  
 
Barbara Wright  26:04 
Where have you traveled to in the past? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  26:55 
We were-- we did. Yeah, I don't know if we'll do it this year. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  27:03 
Oh, not that far. We've been to Ocean Shores. We have a place there.  
 
Barbara Wright  27:11 
Bend, Oregon? In Ocean Shores? 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  27:14 
No in Washington, down by the shoreline. And we've gone to Westport. Where else have we 
gone? We haven't been really very far afield with the trailer. Think that's about it. Well, we have 
it in case we just, you know, decide to go, as I say, this year, might be-- sit there. Last year, it 
did, because I had my hip replaced last year, July six. So I didn't go anywhere. I-- and I couldn't 
walk and move before that, so we weren't able to go too far.  
 
Barbara Wright  27:21 
No wonder you feel when the rain comes. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  27:41 
Yeah. 
 
Barbara Wright  27:43 
Well, believe it or not, that's all the questions I have-- 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  27:50 
Wonderful but you sure love the hard ones though. Gee! Those are questions that really needs 
thought about. 
 
Barbara Wright  27:58 
Yeah, they really-- oh, also too, maybe, you know, I'm gonna come back here on Sunday, so 
maybe if you think of-- if you get a [?ding?] and think of [inaudible], I can certainly pull it out. 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:29 
I'm not that good at thinking up things like that. I'm not that smart. 
 
Page 12 of 12 
 
Barbara Wright  28:31 
Yeah, I kind of think about these kind of things all the time, but it's really been a pleasure talking 
to you.  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:35 
Oh, it's been exciting [laughs].I still don't know why you picked me, I'm honored, I really am.  
 
Barbara Wright  28:50 
No, I--  
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  28:54 
I hope you all get something out of it. 
 
Barbara Wright  28:56 
Absolutely, I know, just personally, I've learned so much just about kind of everything. So 
definitely, yeah. You know, I love the era to begin with, so... 
 
Olive Mary Milbourne Carlton  29:04 
Oh, that's great. Well, it's what I say, I-- I'm a talker, and you get me started, you can't shut me 
up. That's why our Women's Association, they always, as I told you before, always want me to 
go with them, because I can talk more with people. I love meeting people, though, and I like 
talking. And I like-- I am very proud to have been in the service, I really am. To help the country 
as best I could, especially when we started out with the women getting into the service, we're 
the-- we are the pioneers. It's exciting time. And you get our bunch of women together, you'd be 
amazed at what they can say, talk about. 
 
Barbara Wright  29:55 
We're switching the tape now to slide two. I didn't want to ruin the continuity of the 
conversation. 